Hm that's an interesting thought but it would be hard to find something that explains what it is for without this kind of ambiguity...I'm definitely gonna think more about this. I also believe though that having the gallery descriptions displayed more visibly, also when browsing and not just when submitting, could already help a lot.
Well said, excellent advice It can sometimes be difficult to choose the best category, as a lot of work could fall into many and still be right...but it only takes a minute to choose and make sure it's in the right place I'm sure all of the current CVs will appreciate your taking the time to write this, and hopefully everyone will read it!
Wait up—since when go CVs move miscats, apart from glaringly obvious ones? For the longest time, the stock line was "We err on the side of the artist, so if they're putting their work there, there's a reason for it."
If I wrote fan fic, and wanted it to focus on the craft of the writing, I'd submit it to lit; if I wanted it to focus on the fandom and my interpretation of the characters, I'd put it in fanfiction.
Nothing has changed about that, if it's in the same parent category we should only move it if it's glaringly wrong and well if it's even in the wrong parent category then it's kinda strongly misplaced by default. And if we want to feature something that isn't in the right gallery as a DD we would have to move it first for instance.
Especially fan art (and fan fics) are grey zones though. As are some other categories of course but I feel fan art works are the best example for something that cannot be that easily categorized and would have to be treated on a case to case basis. I'm not gonna say too much though, I'll leave that up to the fan art CVs. ^^
As many times as I want to suggest u icons but most of them are in the pixel category. And same goes for M/A. Fanart that's in the M/A Category or Cartoons and Comics really bugs me. But I guess I will let the artist know nex time
If you find icons in the pixel gallery, please suggest them anyway because I can take care of the miscat and move it to the right category before featuring it. A short notification would be nice ofc so I don't overlook it. ^^
>>STEP 1 | Pay attention when submitting your own works Try to fight the laziness and spend a minute more upon submitting in order to pick the correct category. It will profit both you and other deviants as well as make life easier for your Gallery CVs. If you are ever unsure what gallery your work should go in don't be afraid to contact the CV of the gallery you think it should be in and ask them for advice.<<
I try my very best with that and by now it only happened 3-4 times (in 5 years) that something got move to another category and I didn't mind at all ^^ Actually I'm quite happy if someone tells me where it really belongs. I like ordering MY gallery so why would I not want order in the dA-Galleries as well?!
>>STEP 2 | Let the creator of a miscategorized work know There is nothing wrong with politely poking someone and telling them that their work should probably be in another category. Politeness is the key!! Do never accuse anyone of having placed a miscat on purpose or being stupid for having failed to find the right category. Most miscats happen by accident after all.<<
I do that wherever I can and I just recently supported a CV with their miscat-duties (as I applied for that respective CV job myself and if I would have gotten it I would have had to do it anyways ^^). But sometimes people are pretty grumpy when you gently poke them about recategorizing their art. No matter how polite you are they see it as a personal offense that you let them know that their work is misplaced when you are NOT a GM/CV/staff-member. In the mind of a lot of folks is the "misconception" that only staff members and/or CVs may advice them in terms of proper dA-usage/behaviour.
I for example used to have a case where I guy from which I knew that he did Fractals submitted his artword to the 3D-Abstracts Category even though the program he uses is offcially consider a Fractal Renderer. I was confused with this also because he was a member of my fractal group and I constantly windered if what he submitted really was 3D or Fractal because some 3D-Programms can generate fractal-like images.
Anyways I checked his gallery and noted him about this confusion and suggested him to recategorize his art to Raw Fractals or Fractal Manipulation but for some reason I had the impression he took offense in that. Actually he told me that he submit his Fractals into the 3D-Category on purpose because he experiences more favs, views or whatever with it. Back then the Fair Exposure didn't exist I have to say in addition. Since we couldn'T find a common ground he left my group even though I always accepted his art...just because of this "misunderstanding".
But this is a good example for people who miscat on purpose and also that some people don't like non-staff members to give them "technical" advice.
>>STEP 3 | Report existing miscats If you stumble across a miscat and you're not entirely certain how to make the creator aware or you don't feel comfortable with doing so, let either the CV who's gallery it has mistakenly landed in or the one who's gallery it should be in know so the necessary steps can be taken.<<
I usually do that when I stumble upon something that feels misplaced but then again there are sometimes categories that seem to flow over from these things you'd have no life anymore noting the respective people to take care of it.
Another thing that in my humble opinion boosts miscats are categories that should be entirely seprated.
For example there is a mixed media category in Digital AND in traditional. Shouldn't Mixed media be a category of its own because a piece can also be mixed from traditional AND digital and not only a mix of several digital or traditional mediums.
People who create mixed media that includes traditional AND digital mediums kind of submit it to one of both because there is no other option but actually they need a category of their own.
It would be better to create a Mixed Media Maincategory with the subcategories, Digital, Traditional and Both(or another title that represents that both mediums have been used).
I actually see a lot of miscats in the photomanipulation gallery where people who actually need such an all-purpose mixed media folder submit their things there because they see neither the digital not the traditional part suitable.
I'm very glad to hear that you are actually happy if someone makes you aware of one of your miscats, it's great to know that people like you exist.
Ah yes, that is indeed a rather sad example. If someone actually admits to purposefully submitting to the wrong category...I'd suggest if you ever stumble across someone who actually has such extreme miscats and says they are there on purpose, let the responsible CVs know and we can see that we deal with it.
I actually agree with you, I've been thinking that a Mixed Media parent category would indeed be a very practical addition.
Thank you very much for your opinions, it's great to get such detailed feedback from the community! I wish more people were as motivated to communicate their concerns in a way as you do. ^^
>>I'm very glad to hear that you are actually happy if someone makes you aware of one of your miscats, it's great to know that people like you exist. <<
That almost sounds like I'm a rarity Why would I be grumpy if someone told me in a polite and friendly way where my art ACTUALLY belongs? It's not what you say but how you say it
>>Ah yes, that is indeed a rather sad example. If someone actually admits to purposefully submitting to the wrong category...I'd suggest if you ever stumble across someone who actually has such extreme miscats and says they are there on purpose, let the responsible CVs know and we can see that we deal with it. <<
Well who is the current 3D-abstarcs CV? I'm too lazy to look for the blog with the list But I will keep that in mind thanks ^^
>>I actually agree with you, I've been thinking that a Mixed Media parent category would indeed be a very practical addition. <<
I'm not very patient with visual mockups - I'm more the mindmap/flow chart type of suggester but that doesn't seem to be very popular on here. In my first year on dA I already had suggestions how to make the dA-categories more user-friendly and asked around who deals with these things. I was told that moonbeam had to deal with those things so I noted her back then with an offer to make some kind of flow chart kind of thing about the categories but never got a reply so I thought it was a bad idea.
If there actually was someone who'd find such a way of mockup useful I'd still do it (:
>>Thank you very much for your opinions, it's great to get such detailed feedback from the community! I wish more people were as motivated to communicate their concerns in a way as you do. ^^<<
Well it really depends on what is offered. If it's a topic I'm concerned about and have my 5 cents to give I'll do so. There was a time when I was very active in the site update blogs as well but recently the things open for discussion just aren't something I can deal with or interest me so I will just wait for something else xD
I actually have to say that I'm rather bad informed about community concerns - that is one reason why I started watching the CR-Blogs - to be more up to date about projects and Features and changes within the team xD
I mean I've applied to become Fractal CV when the position was vacant but if I had known Damien applied as well I wouldn'T have applied because I'm like a total noob compared to him but the Fractal Gallery is actually the only I see myself suitable for so I can't apply for other vacant positions. I could possibly apply for a position in the area of psychedelic art but yeah that is a bit to specialized also because I have my very own opinions about that category of art. I don't consider everything in the psy-art category to really belong there but that's just me I guess.
I'd really like to do more for the community but I don't really know how as I'm not very good in creating tutorials or other useful stuff. I'm actually better in organizing things like contests or could alos imagine to organize an event if I had the funds so to speak. Setting up a contest is easy but private contest aren't usually as popular as community contests.
It's a pity if you have ideas and also set up something and it's not frequented because you are just an average artist or worse and therfor have too less watchers. Sure you can note a bunch of topic realted groups to pimp your contest but usally groups have large blogs listing everything going on so usually that doesn't really pay off.
So I thought as a CV I could really do something - mainly cleaning the respective gallery. If there was a job to ONLY clean the miscat-mess I'd apply for it because I like to keep things ordered when there are clear rules guiding me. ^^
How exactly did you imagine that category redesign? And not getting a reply doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad idea, it can also mean it's being taken into consideration and who knows, maybe even worked on?
That I really understand, I can't really give my opinion on every current topic either because well sometimes I am just not informed enough about it. But the fact that you speak up about the areas that do interest you is perfect already. Can't expect anyone to be familiar with absolutely everything anyway.
You don't need to be a pro to be a gallery moderator, I'd like to think I'm far from being that as an iconist as well but if you care enough and have at least a certain level of understanding of your field you are already suitable. That's just me saying that though, in the end it's all up to :devmoonbeam13. ^^
I'm currently holding my third individually organized contest (not counting the ones that I organized through groups) and it's actually quite a success, as were the ones before it (at the first one I only had a good 300 watchers). Prizes don't have to cost a lot, you can always ask people for donations beforehand or offer things like features for instance. And after that it's all about promoting correctly. There are countless ways to do this (not just groups), such as in the correct forums area or by contacting some CVs who are usually all very happy if they can help out with stuff like that, especially the ones that are related to your contest theme.
>>Well you definitely are rare when it comes to that, there's too many people who take it the wrong way. ^^<<
There are millions of people on dA and still that behavior is a rarity? Oh dear...
>>3D is currently ^alltheoriginalnames and well Fractal you know I think. <<
Yeah sure I know Fractal - but I guess it's better to tell the 3R-party since they are the better adress as it's currently within THEIR border so to speak
>>How exactly did you imagine that category redesign?<<
Well if you want I can create the mentioned flow chart again (since the gallery has changed since back then) and note it to you when done. Only if you have the time and are interested. It's a bit complicated to explain with only text ^^
>>And not getting a reply doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad idea, it can also mean it's being taken into consideration and who knows, maybe even worked on? <<
Well yeah I know. I later learned that the staff instance she works in has a shitload to do but back then I was a noob lol
>>That I really understand, I can't really give my opinion on every current topic either because well sometimes I am just not informed enough about it. But the fact that you speak up about the areas that do interest you is perfect already. Can't expect anyone to be familiar with absolutely everything anyway. <<
Well there are people on dA that aren'T CVs or staff members that are better informed than me But I guess if I pick up the most important things is already enough ^^
>>You don't need to be a pro to be a gallery moderator, I'd like to think I'm far from being that as an iconist as well but if you care enough and have at least a certain level of understanding of your field you are already suitable. That's just me saying that though, in the end it's all up to :devmoonbeam13. ^^<<
Well I think a CV should have some expereince in their field of art and be able to guide newbies and master their duties. How would I be able to be CV of and art style I can't do myself? I like Anime/Manga and enjoy reading/watching but I can't draw to save my life So why would I want to apply to become ANime/Manga CV? Just sayin...
When I filled out the application I had a lot of issues with those last questions where you have to write about yourself, what you are most proud of etc...and I was like "err nothing?" - I bugges a lot of CVs what is expected and asked them for advice about the things I considered writing. Took me 2hrs to fill out that application (only those 3 areas). I don't know if I will apply again when Damiens time is over (unless he will be promoted to be a mentor which is very likely to be happening because he's just so damn pro lol). Actually there is hardly anyone who yould fill his gap
>>I'm currently holding my third individually organized contest (not counting the ones that I organized through groups) and it's actually quite a success, as were the ones before it (at the first one I only had a good 300 watchers).<<
Well now you are a CV. Usually you guys say that being a CV doesn't necessarily make you more popular but I think differently
>>Prizes don't have to cost a lot, you can always ask people for donations beforehand or offer things like features for instance.<<
Prices aren't the problem. I've noted some people about pimpage and donations and krazykel even donated some spare points. But I also offer a decent amount of points myself - well as many as I can spare. Possibly it's also the Theme and the medium limitations that make it less popular but I ran a poll beforehand and included the two most popular votes. Well Deadline is on the 31st of December at midnight my time zone. It's just that only a few people commented on the journal to ask questions. Maybe it's more popular than I think and just so few people have questions - who knows ^^ If it's a none-signup thing you never know who participates unless they comment ^^
>>And after that it's all about promoting correctly. There are countless ways to do this (not just groups), such as in the correct forums area or by contacting some CVs who are usually all very happy if they can help out with stuff like that, especially the ones that are related to your contest theme. <<
I've noted CR about pimping my contest - there was even a contest group that added my contest to their list without me asking ^^ I've asked a bunch of freinds to pimp it along with asking for donations. I'm just not so much into the dA-Forum so I haven't posted anything there - possibly I should do that. As far as possibly I've even asked chatroom owners to promote my contest in their topic line but most owners of popular rooms don't like to promote stuff that isn't related to their room or group.
So I guess I will try the forum thing as some kind of last resort though the contest is already running since 1 month and time is ticking away ^^
I would love to organize contests and projects as a CV as long as I can kind of use my own ideas.
I for example occasionally run a Comment Challenge to encourage people to learn commenting/critiquing and how good it feels to actually "speak" with the artist about their art (and wherever else the thing might lead). Actually I like to receive comments with content so I can discuss with the viewer about their opinion.
I'm generally more a fav-and-runner because a fav already tells the artist I liked their artwork - I don't see a sense in then also commenting "I like it" or something alike just because there are comment stats. I only comment when I have more to say or feel the urge to ALSO express my appreciation with words but the latter is rather rare.
I also don't mind if people fav and run in my gallery. It's not that I don't like comments that don't say much it's just I never really know what to say but Thank you. I'd prefer to know WHY they "like it" if my art reminds them of something or inspires them in a certain way etc.
That is why I invented the comment challenge. Basically everybody no matter what art level can participate and comment the challenge journal with a link to one of their artworks but long literature as I don't like to read long stuff on screen ^^. I then comment under that artwork as good as possible and wait for the artist to reply to it. In reply to the reply I give them a link to one of my artworks so they can practise. And that continues until I end the cycle or until no new participants enter and it slowly drowns under a pile of other journals
I even try to comment constructively on crappy submissions I would never fav or look at if I'd stumble upon it while browsing (though I exclude scraps and things that I don't really consider art like porn or grainy webcam nudes or unfinished drawings...well stuff like that).
Possibly I will run another cycle of that project when my contest is over and judged. I could inform the CR-Team about it if you guys are interested in either participating or promoting
I'd love to see the flow chart but only if it's not too much work.^^
Yeah, of course you need to have a certain amount of experience BUT you don't need to be a pro or even close to it. And I see you are doing quite a few fractals yourself so that alone kinda disqualifies you as a n00b in that field. ^^ Haha I had that too, there were some questions where I wasn't sure what they wanted me to tell them, so I asked a CV to give me some pointers but that was only the first time, after three times I seem to have gotten the hang of it.
I've started the contest a while before I was a CV and haven't noticed a higher number of people frequenting it ever since I got the post. I also don't think I got more popularity so far, the only extra watchers I gained around that time were some other CVs but well it's just the start of my term, so what do I know? xD
I've always got that too, only a handful of people actually say they're interested in the contest but then at one point entries start pouring in, especially more and more towards the deadline.
Agreed very much, if you've got nothing more to say than 'great' or 'awesome' on a work, it's not really imperative to do so. Nice of course but not super helpful. I also always feel so bad for just replying with a variation of 'thx' then but what else are you gonna say and it's not like I can just not reply at all, I'm too polite for that.
Either way, I'm up for pimping that project anytime, and if it's just to my personal watchers (got a fair number so it's always somewhat useful). Any great projects of that kind, run them by me anytime and I'll do my best to help out.
No problem we all have a life outside of dA as well
>>I'd love to see the flow chart but only if it's not too much work.^^<<
Well basically it's a shitload of work, but I've already started. But since I do it all in photoshop and pretty much manually it consumes lots of time. Not that it's overly complicated but it's a bit boring since the principles are the same just the words are different But I guess I can possibly have it finished somewhere around the middel of January as I'm not available between Christmas and New Year and also have some real life happenings to take care of.
>>Yeah, of course you need to have a certain amount of experience BUT you don't need to be a pro or even close to it. And I see you are doing quite a few fractals yourself so that alone kinda disqualifies you as a n00b in that field. ^^<<
Well it's not all about quantity, also quality. I know some folks in the fractal community who upload doztens of pics every day but theyre almost all looking similar and are rather crappy as well ^^ - Just because they don't know much about it yet. They will eventually develop but yeah still...now they are still noobs xD
>>Haha I had that too, there were some questions where I wasn't sure what they wanted me to tell them, so I asked a CV to give me some pointers but that was only the first time, after three times I seem to have gotten the hang of it. <<
Well I'd next time most likely write the same as last time as there just isn't something better or more suitable ^^
>>I've started the contest a while before I was a CV and haven't noticed a higher number of people frequenting it ever since I got the post. I also don't think I got more popularity so far, the only extra watchers I gained around that time were some other CVs but well it's just the start of my term, so what do I know? xD<<
Oh well. I've been watching quite a few CVs or back then GMs and noticed them being very popular - but I guess mostly among their respective gallery members. Possibly it's not so visible but over the term they gathered rather many watchers and fans even though it didn'T happen in a highly recognizeable way. ^^ Maybe it's also just me lol
>>I've always got that too, only a handful of people actually say they're interested in the contest but then at one point entries start pouring in, especially more and more towards the deadline. <<
Well I will just wait for what will happen. Recently a lot of people have been faving the article so possibly half of them might even participate ^^
>>Agreed very much, if you've got nothing more to say than 'great' or 'awesome' on a work, it's not really imperative to do so. Nice of course but not super helpful. I also always feel so bad for just replying with a variation of 'thx' then but what else are you gonna say and it's not like I can just not reply at all, I'm too polite for that. <<
Yeah yeah so true...
>>Either way, I'm up for pimping that project anytime, and if it's just to my personal watchers (got a fair number so it's always somewhat useful). Any great projects of that kind, run them by me anytime and I'll do my best to help out. <<
Well then I will let you know when I run that Challenge again. I guess I will do it as soon as I have finished voting the contest and giving out the prizes and finished someother projects like the Category Flow Chart MockUp I also just remembered there are some other prizes I need to take care of and that I almost forgot about due to my lack of internet recently T_T.
That would best go into Traditional Art>Mixed Media. But if you want to be 100% sure, ask one of the Traditional or Digital Art CVs, they can probably give you a better or at least more certain opinion. ^^
I see it like that - if the higher weight of the picture is the lineart - I'd say traditional if the higher weight is on the digital coloring and lso the lineart is digitally improved (like making a clear lineart from a scanned sketch) I'd call it digital since most of it is digital.
That sounds reasonable. I've sketched quite a few of my digital drawings traditionally but since the sketch is only like 20% of the work I still put it in the Digital Art category (or Fan Art > Digital for that matter^^). Imho Mixed Media should be used like you said when all medias have been used to somewhat of an equal amount but also if you can visually recognize that something has been created with more than one medium.
That is exactly how I deal with it in one of my groups. When people submit something like mixed media but it looks more like a photomanipulation and was also created the way of one I decline it. When I'm not sure how something was created but it looks like a certain something I usually ask the artist how they created it to then decide if the folder they submitted it to is appropriate and possibly give them advice about what dA-category might be more suitable if the one they used isn't ^^
Well I have my ways of doing things and I get easily annoyed when people question the way I do it or when people are ignoring the rules that I always display easily accessible on the group front page to everyone can always look up something - but a lot of people are just idk - they just don't care and then get grumpy or throw a fit because I decline their stuff for the umptenth time with the notice that I suggest them to read the rules again as I'm tired of rciting the rules everytime I decline something.
Same here, same here, believe me. I've got the submission rules in my pixel group pretty clearly on my front page and if I feel it's necessary I always add a comment explaining why I declined a work. Most people are pretty great in dealing with rejection but I've had some really butthurt people as well. Only recently I told a guy in a polite manner that I couldn't accept one of his works because the background was smudged/blurred (that's against the 'rules' in pixel art and I state clearly on the front page that only 100% pixeled works are accepted) and he sent a note to the group, asking to be removed as a member and then removed all previous works of his from the group gallery.
That would work too of course and it's really a judgement call with those kinds of works anyway. As someone else here said, it would in some cases be lovely to have a Mixed Media parent category, maybe with nice specifications in the subcategories. Somehow I fear though that this category could because of its title then end up as some sort of dumping place for works that wouldn't fit other categories or aren't easily categorized even if it's not mixed media...
I actually really hate that fanart is a completely separate category.
I make embroideries and quite a few are fanart but I wouldn't dream of submitting them outside the artisan crafts galleries because for me HOW they are made is more important than the subject matter. Putting them outside the cross stitch & embroidery gallery would be a miscat IMO. Not to mention that the cross stitch & embroidery gallery would be all but empty if all fanart was moved to the fanart section
I understand that, also for the reason that the fan art category simply doesn't have an artisan crafts section, which is actually, now that I think about it, quite a big gap. Question: If the fan art parent category had proper subcategories so you could submit it for instance as Fan Art>Cartoons&Comics>Artisan Crafts>Needle Work>Cross stitch&Embroidery, would you consider putting it there?
no, but I'd consider a Artisan Crafts > Needlework > Cross Stitch & Embroidery > fanart for the simple reason that it's an artisan craft that was used to create it so it's first and foremost that and secondary is the subject matter. A large chunk of artisan crafts is fanart if all that were to vanish elsewhere it make the galleries so empty.
With so much digital and traditional art on the site it makes sense to have the fan art done in those mediums separate to allow the fan artists to shine but in the artisan crafts gallery it's not so much of an issue.
Over the years I have reported like thousands of miscats and also made many journals. It just gets worse day after day. So slowly I have just given up finding new awesome deviations here and just come here to check my messages because it is so frustrating.
LOVE. I know you and I have no control over this, but I really wish when people reported miscats, we got a copy of that report too. Like......... :C I could fix it within a few minutes, rather than how long it takes the report to go through and find it's way to someone who can fix it.
Another terribly misused category is Architectural Models under artisan crafts. There are literally about three times as many deviations that don't belong there than models, and most of the models aren't even related to architecture. I once spent about an hour letting people know that they had submitted to the wrong category, but not only did I barely scratch the surface but most of the artists did not correct the mistake. D: